President Austin...

I resent the fact that you have misrepresented AW's position to the BWA on this issue.

I resent the fact that you have misrepresented the BWA's position to AW on this issue.

To the best of my knowledge, the BWA has no position on this issue, nor have they ever had a real position on this issue.

You have used your position as club president to try to further your own goals on this issue, while practically keeping it a secret from the general membership.

I understand that you hesitate to bring this before the BWA as a club, as an issue, because you fear defeat. Why have you not brought this before the club?

You have presented your position(& Barry's?) as the BWA's position. Is that your version of democracy? Is that the type of democracy you guys are pushing for?

Brent... I suspect we could delete half the "shares" and you guys would still be in the minority within the EAMG. Those who are involved understand why. I invite people to get involved and come to understand why. So far... pretty much everyone who has expressed an interest in the management of Elkhorn Acres has had a "share" passed to them. It's an open invitation. Heck... I may pass you my shares that I never asked for(with permission from Valerie or Hoagie, of course).

Hoagy and Valerie have entrusted me with their votes. I hesitate to toss them aside, but really... I don't need no stinking votes and I'll gladly pass them on to other interested parties, with their permission and only with their permission. I'll still fight the small minority that has bullied and intimidated the fine folks that upped the cash to purchase that property, whether I have a vote or not.

By the way... as it stands now, the BWA has 3 votes. I've recommended that the BWA and Vikings both have their votes increased to the maximum 4 votes each and I expect the EAMG will have no problem with that.

Legal schmegal.

Dale, dale, dale.
Brent

This will be my last post for a few days as I am heading out of town to take my family camping and will not have cell service or email.

I do want to try and refocus this discussion. I thought we were making some headway earlier in the day. We now have five groups of stakeholders in this issue; EAMG, Vikings, BWA, Elkhorn Paddlers and now Bardstown Boaters. Each of those groups has something to add to the dialog. A structure that brings these interests together would be a great development.

I hope that while I'm away you all can think about what that might look like. In my absence, I've asked Kevin Colburn, AW National Stewardship Director, to check the forum and be available if need be.

Mark Singleton

Thanks Mark, We will strive to have something in mind to discuss with you when you get back. I think we can do just what you are suggesting.
Brent

C'mon Dale.

I count you among my friends in the BWA. I don't have any enemies that I know of ( other than Dave Martin of course ;-0))

Please put any of that stuff behind you. I believe that the lessons have been learned in this saga by many people. We are now moving to put an organized, simple but adequate, non-time consuming and fair solution to the episode. Why don't you join us ? You don't have to, but don't carry the grudge - its an uneeded burden.

I think that, as you feel so strongly about fixing { Barry and Brent }, WHOOPs - I mean the BWA's moves to personally control the site, contact the EAMG and lobby for a position.

SYTOR,

Mike

I’m not sure, I may have been awarded a share for doing the parking lot? I don’t care. I never acknowledged a share because I was not one of the front end donors and you had to put up $500 to get a share. I was out of touch at work when the purchase happen. I thank all those who did. I wanted to help since I missed the purchase. But nothing happen for a long time.

I wanted to help and got tired of the bickering and crap so I organized the parking lot, road, changing room and bulletin board. The EAMG had Zina’s plan. Sorry Zina, it was very nice but it would have taken years and thousands of dollars to build the road alone at the rate EAMG was going. Her plan needed revisions. EAMG seldom met, few attended, few cared and fewer could agree on anything let alone a development plan. As I remember the plan had a long drive to the left parallel to Dave Quarles’s drive that came to a circle with a boat drop off area with parking in the middle of the field, maybe? It may of had a pavilion and changing room location? The existing road and parking lot were located based on immediate need and completing it in two days for little or nothing. I got approximately180 tons of stone and AW paid the equipment operator approximately $750. I did it by myself, Zina showed up when I was about done. Some freaked, most said thanks.

I must not have done too bad because later I went to a few meetings and I they voted me in as president? Why? A figure head I assume, because no one want to anything any time soon. They wanted to want lay low.

The naked people issue came up from Mr. Quarles. To my knowledge EAMG was not functioning. I with Barry Grimes help erected the changing rooms in one day. The material’s were reimbursed by AW. I latter built the bulletin board and posted a thanks to the people contributing and AW sign/logo. Some freaked, most said thanks.
I put a lock on the bulletin board. The lock was later cut off and the list of donors removed. I was told if I put a lock back on it would be cut off again. I remember who told me this, any guesses?

Zina organized the tree planting. I’ll have to let her inform us on who was involved. I was there to help her.

Then the AW property sign someone made to let people know it was private property and reduce liability by showing our effort to keep trespassers out? Dave Robertson may have made it?

The gate, road repairs and steeping stones. I’m not sure how the gate came in to play, maybe to keep the locals out and reduce liability again? I and others did it during a fix-up day announced at a BWA meeting, Zina? The first rocks at the take-out were placed because several people had fallen on the sloppy mud. I remember Gary Reese and several other Vikings there for this. How did you find out Gary? The gate was a big deal for some reason, passing out keys were even discussed. Now look at it today? Anyone want to help fix the gate? Do we need the gate?

What ever happen to the donation box?

Help me Jbob, Dale, Joey, Bubba, where were you when all this was going on? Maybe you did help plant trees or repair the road? If you helped, thanks, you deserve a voice, not a share dived out in a back room meeting.

I agree with Bub's statements with some additional wording:
"(1) we respect the people that put up the money and they're ability to manage it," (Yes, But only If they continue to be involved and allow EVERYONE a voice, care and can get things done in a reasonable amount of time without bickering)
“(2 )the property serves many more paddling groups then the BWA (BWA, Vikings, Elkhorn Paddlers AND Bardstown Boaters...the other Ky AW Affiliate club that is very active paddling” (PERFECT, let them all have a voice if they get involved)
(3) What's wrong with how its being managed? Who's voice isn't being heard? (Mine! if the person who gathers up the most perceived shares is in charge)

Per Jbob, “Unfortunately, this closed non-democratic group and the ensuing, endless controversy it has generated, has delayed or blocked key decisions concerning the takeout, including constructing change rooms, laying more gravel, fixing the potholes in the road, etc...” Jbob, this was the EAMG.

Apologize! Where were you? I’ll apologize for the EAMG for being dysfunctional.

“When the Elkhorn Acres Management Group holds a meeting, it gives all interested parties plenty of advance notice. Usually a couple of months. It invites representatives from the BWA, Vikings, Elkhorn Paddlers, and other members of the group who choose not to belong to any of the local paddling clubs.” Oh really Dale, what meetings, when? The one they voted me President? A couple of months for a meeting notice, a couple more bickering and a couple more doing nothing.

I do think Jbob and others are working for a reasonable way to come to agreement and for that I say. Thanks Jbob. And thanks to any others that are open to a management group made up of the BWA, Vikings, Elkhorn paddlers, Bardstowner, AW members, boater bums or anyone interested, not just the person with the most proxy shares.

I look forward to seeing you all at the next regular meeting or on the river.

Mr. Margavage

I will have to say there was one (possibly more) EMAG meetings that were held without my knowledge while i held a passed down share. I only found out when the meeting minutes were mailed to the listserve, including myself.

I strongly feel that with the design professional within the club, they should be utilized in the EA's best interest, not ignored. Just because some tasks were "cowboyed" doesn't mean they were necessarily done right, yet they were completed. By including input and help from others, better improvements could have resulted and maybe even a little more money to work with from other groups. Work done is is appreciated, but less functional when

The donation box never really materialized. I had made simple plans (and posted them on the forum) for ANYONE who had the ability and equipment to make it. It's very simple and would likely help raise some money, though someone would have to be responsible for collection. Going out and purchasing one would cost too much from what I had researched.

Dustin

I agree with some of your points, Super. Things presumably have moved slow at times. I guess I haven't felt voiceless b/c of that though b/c it is a takeout that works up to my standards. All this drama and its a takeout. Knock on wood...no broken windows, no trash, no beer bottles, no stragglers.

I have ALWAYs appreciated the work that you've done for that place...even though I might not have agreed with the precedent your methods set.


I just want to be clear I'm not necessarily opposed to a more open process, I'm more focused on giving those original donors they're due respect. I personally am amazed that boaters came together that quickly to raise the money and thus care to preserve they're intentions as well as the good for all paddlers in the future.

Damn Dustin.... we were hoping you wouldn't find out.

You make some good points.

Unless you know different, I suspect those meeting minutes were from an executive council meeting... just the officers. I'm not sure exactly when you got shared with your share, but the last regular EAMG meeting was last April and you're listed in the minutes as being present. It was probably a year before then when we had a meeting at the Dingers. That was before Valerie and Ben shared their shares.

By request, I posted last years meeting minutes on the Viking forum. [www.vikingcanoeclub.org]

Wish you were down here in the ditch with us throwing elbows. :-)

Dustin: I wish you were here helping to work toward a conciliatory resolution. I think we can all come together on this and your input is always appreciated and valuable. Think consensus everyone. The various original donors, myself included, would want consensus on this topic. I think we can have a constructive dialogue on all this and work with AW towards a satisfactory solution. Let's all work together. Elbow pads are for creekin.
Brent