Don't worry Ledgeman this will all be over soon and all the little forest animals will come out and dance in a circle. I do have to say that I don't like the crack you made about warm and fuzzy, but if you come to the RR cleanup this year you may get to feel something cold empty and fuzzy, MY FREEKIN HEAD!!!!

JBob
calculated risk taker

I realize I have recently been a pain in the ass for a few on this thread lately. I'll not apologize for that!

I have but one hope, and that is to see the BWA positively influence the future of boaters and boating through democratic service the honorable conduct.

Personally I don't care who manages the property so long as boaters are allowed access. But I do believe we as boaters share a responsibility to respect our peers actions and rights (fellow BWA and AW members or not). We have an established system of operation, as does the AW and the EAMG. Unless I am mistaken that system is the democratic process in which officers at each organization and at each level represent the wishes of their constituents (above personal interests) in order to insure the welfare of the ultimate resources, the boater, the river, and the environment.

I believe it is the responsibility of each individual entrusted with a position of office to serve the individuals within the organization they represent in a selfless manor placing the interests of the majority as their primary duty.

I am a member of other organizations (both millions strong) that actively practice this principle of operation and rarely if ever experiences deep divisions as have occurred over the Elkhorn Acres property. Yet, both of these organizations yield deep strength and influence over federal, state, local and social policy.

Gmead

I encourage everyone and anyone who may utilize or have an interest in the Elkhorn Acres property to attend the meeting scheduled for 4/2/2008 at 6:30pm in Frankfort. I've attatched the link providing information and the location of the meeting.

[www.americanwhitewater.org]

Gmead

There is a broader regional meeting of anyone interested in the Elkhorn property which will happen on the 23rd. The April 2nd meeting is to gather the thoughts of the original donors to the property and anyone to whom those donors have given their proxies.
If you attend, please be respectful of the purpose of this meeting, to gather and record the thoughts of this group. There will be an opportunity for open discussion at the meeting on the 23rd.

thank you,

Zina:
I know that this is alot to ask but do you think that you could get someone to post the minutes of the meeting on this forum?

I stand corrected, thank you Zina. I was confused about the dates and should have reread your original post.

I would like to read the minutes of the meeting from tomorrow along with Jbob if possible. Thanks.

Gmead

I agree Z. as a concerened non-vote owning member of the BWA and paddler of the Korn I would like to hear what goes on tomorrow. I will unfortunately not be there in person due to prior conflicts with school. Thanks, J

I Also hope that the EAMG can adapt as a group within themselves to be what AW wants without having to be forced aside by a potential new group. I think the framework already exists to be what is needed if they want.

Joey Calder

Zina:

As an original donor involved with the early mechanics of making the purchase happen, I have repeatedly expressed concerns with the organization as set up, years after the purchase and without full involvement or consent of all donors. The EAMG never had full consent. It was not a democracy that took a vote and agreed to majority rule. It just formed by some of the donors long after the purchase. It formed due to the desires of some of the donors and despite the silence and objections of others. It does not represent all paddlers or AW Affiliates and is weighted in favor of donors, many of whom no longer paddle or do so rarely. In ten years, these folks will be gone and the EAMG will not effectively represent interested paddlers. This is an Elite club that has tried to muscle control over the takeout despite other, stronger interests in the access in the long haul. The AW Affiliates have little voice, 1 vote out of (40 or so?). Proxy voting is rampant in EAMG, clearly disfavored by many in the boating world. We have not had a meeting since the Election well over a year ago. Are there any officers at all? There certainly has not been a meeting and the last few meetings really resolved nor did anything despite all of us agreeing on things to be done without regard to the organizational defects.

This organization purports to have Bylaws which have not been adopted by proper process. The supposed Bylaws in place are complex and tedious and was never in the radar of us donors in 1999. Many years after we bought the property, Bylaws were attempted to be enacted by some of the donors in order to better control (legally?) what happened with the property. I was unaware of this attempt until after the fact despite being a donor very involved in the purchase and donation to AW. I was not the only one. Secret back door deals? - this is one of the biggest ones by BWA select members in years. Further, AW was not involved in the set up of the organization and was unaware of the creation (out of thin air) for shares, subscribed and unsubscribed shares, the unregulated transfer of shares and the lack of cohesive founding organizational members. There has never been a formal written agreement with AW despite past debates leading to that suggestion years ago. Still nothing except AW's recent clear statement that EAMG is not the management structure they have in mind, after hearing everyone's personal comments on all sides of the fence. Everyone has had a voice with AW and they are aware of everyone's position. Now AW wants the Council of interest paddlers over EAMG - that is clear.

There are suggestions that non-donors have shares. How did that be allowed and why are there not share transfer restraints by the organization? There was no warning, just a statement of "shares" being transferred. Some donors (myself included) do not recognize the validity of those transferred shares for different and additional reasons than not recognizing any shares. How are we going to deal with that? Does whether it matters that there was no process to allow that depend upon who someone likes personally and decides to side with? That is not process, that is nothing but a popularity contest.

Many donors simply sat back and did not care what others did. The rest of us fought over what was being shoved down the donor's throats as an organizational fait accompli. Now the fight seems to be with those that were never involved, who somehow assume the organization to be a legitimate one (depends on where they are in the popularity contest), and seem to want to fight with donors of the EAMG simply because they have a personality conflict or other disagreement with that donor. As long as the EAMG exists, these organizational defects and shortcomings will not go away and there will be division. In addition to your comments about what we will discuss tonight, I want to raise again the very fundamental issue of the failure of EAMG to comply with appropriate organizational process in its last 5 year quest to become an entity. I will move to dissolve the EAMG as redundant and a hinderance to resolving the management of AW's property. I am sure that is nothing new to many of you. See you tonight - I look forward to the meeting.

Brent

Zinz, are you in touch with reality? Your inviting these preceived Proxy people to a EAMG meeting to join in? How can you expect to get anything accomplished under these abstract conditions? These imaginary proxy people have no vote and nothing to say until this proxy process is approved. The meeting is for the orginal doners (period). If they want to come and listen, fine. Maybe after the EAMG has it's discussions, elects its reps for AW then those interested can speak? Lets see how many original doners show up, see what they say and then go from there. First things first.

Mr. Margavage

Let me reiterate:
There will be no votes taken tonight. This is to gather information from people.
All points will be written down and recorded, including such things as
I never recognized the EAMG as an entity in the first place
or
All the people to whom proxies have been given (short or long term) are active members of the paddling community and most are active AW volunteers.

Once a point has been made, we will not reiterate it ad nauseum.

We can be consumed by negativity and blame or we can appreciate all that has gone right about this access. People have selective memories about how we got to this point -- we do nothing but damage the reputation of boaters in general and AW in particular by attacking each other.