George the only spin I am averting my eyes from in this thread is Dallas' helicopter :-)

Meanwhile, I can verify that naked rain and drum dances happened this past weekend and may have worked. We drove through heavy t-storms near Berea on our way home from a fab time at Brent's amazing festival near the Pigeon. I also think Silver Creek may be a run in the morning?

Dale, I think your wrong. Will you still paddle with me?

Dave... I think your wrong. It depends on where I'm paddling.

Just thought I would bring this thread back to the top as I have been doing some deeper reading into some of the history just over the past year with this issue. Though there is some crap it is an interesting read with some of the points made. Take a few minutes to read if interested as it was worthwhile in my opinion. J

Joey,
Good idea to bring this thread from last August up to the top again. The rancor was less vociferous then but the issues were basically the same as today - only 7 months later. And yet, the pot holes are still not fixed:-)

I see several folks stating in this thread (including Dale) that the management of the Elkhorn is clearly the BWA's business. Glad to see that we at least agree on that part...
barryg

I believe what Dale is getting at is that it is a BWA issue to support the EAMG and their management of EA. Not do away with the EAMG. He clearly states that they seem to have done an adequate jod in the regular up keep of the property. All be it there are still pot holes, but I believe that a big slowing point is waiting on the weather to be fairer such as this spring. The money is there ( from BWA as well as OTHER INTITIES!!) but I would like to know from Zina what the proposed timeline is since she would most likely know. To my knowledge there were volunteers earmarked to help too. This to me doesn't mean they are doing a poor job, it is just circumstantial evidence to the delay of the project. Lets not put the cart before the horse. If I recall the BWA has issues with getting things done too such as updating our bylaws which hasn't been done in over 25 years, Wow what a delay if there ever was one! J

Joey, the EAMG has NOT come even close to doing an adequate job of taking care of the Elkhorn property. Have you even read what others have been posting about that? FYI, the gravel and the pot holes in the road have been endlessly discussed since early LAST Summer. We've now gone through a huge, several months long drought - when attracting volunteers to fix the pot holes and the weather to do so would have been perfect and yet...NOTHING happens. Weather has zero to do with the delay - divisiveness and gridlock in the EAMG has everything to do with it.

You claim to be reading the history of the EAMG and the land purchase but you still seem to be overlooking the most obvious part of that history - the EAMG is broken when it comes to building consensus and getting things done...

I challenge you - or anyone - to point out one thing that the EAMG has done for the takeout beyond mowing the grass or what it's best at - being a target for endless arguing.
barryg

When AW looks at an access location there are a number of attributes that we find desirable. They are:
1) The property provides valuable public access to the river, where public access does not exist.
2) The property protects unique whitewater resources, such as waterfalls or rapids.
3) The property includes important wildlife habitat or buffers wildlife habitat from development.
4) The property remains in a relatively natural, undisturbed condition.
5) The property protects wetlands, which contribute to the water quality of the river.
6) All other reasonable access solutions and alternatives have been explored.
7) Effective local management has been identified; local clubs and members should express their commitment to caring for the property.


This is what AW requires. Now it seems that what EAMG does falls within this. If they(EAMG) are opposed to a pavilion, then in accordance with the above that is okay since a pavilion disturbs and changes the natural condition. They also state that there is to be no camping, yet there is a double standard set when WE the non governing group of this property, Because we are neither EAMG nor are we AW, vote to allow this to happen. Regardless of if AW says, Well.. Okay for this event that's okay. No, that is contradictory to their posted regulations. As hanley said at the meeting, we are opening a Pandoras box by voting to camp. So, EAMG may not be perfect, but they seem to be doing what is required. But I am sure I will soon hear how I am wrong on this matter. We seem to be the ones circumventing their authority, whether it is believed to be legit or not, and going above them rather then supporting their efforts and lobbying them for progress. You know it is funny that "WE" don't recognize their establishment, yet we are open to giving them money for the gravel. Seems odd doesn't it. Now, to the gravel issue. I recall people too busy to help at roll sessions over the months of Drought due to going paddling on the weekends out of town. How are they going to do the gravel? If we want to make it happen them this is my request.

Zina, What can be done with the $1900 earmarked for the project to make it happen by the end of the month? How can the BWA help EAMG get this project done. This seems to be a more important use of time, help the body that may be, according to some, inadequate, do a better job. That seems more productive than complaining about them. So why not help them rather than bitch about them. Isn't that progress and moving forward? J

The main reason that there is a need for more gravel at the Elkhorn Acres is because we have been blessed with so much rain,so far this year. Not because its been neglected by EAMG. We have just used it a lot! Pray for more rain! tim
m