Russell, I don't know if you saw our old software or not but I thought that it functioned better that the software we are currently using. With that being said I have the very best Put put golf game there is, I just don't have a 386 with an EGA card to play it on, get me. What I don't understand is why we didn't upgrade to the newer version, its great. The other great thing about the software is that it is made to be administered by a user. I don’t think that I like using software that has to be dealt with by someone that has to have a deeply technical background(no offense). It also sound like from what you say that getting our forum off of the AW site would make it much easier to deal with. I think that it would be better to have a more user friendly package that has a decent GUI. Here is a link to the people who made the old software and also a link to one of their boards in use.

[www.discusware.com]

[support.discusware.com]

Hanley;
I don't mean to sound bitchy and I do realize and appreciate the time that Don and Barry have spent on these endeavors, at the same time though I do not like getting auto email from the forum. I have tried every way that I could to turn off e-mail and the final way I did it was to give the forum an incorrect email address. I guess that I just don’t think the current software on a base level is very friendly and I think that to get it that way would require much customization and after that we would have a dedicated software that one person would know how to deal with. Never good

About the combining of Viking and BWA Forum….

I think that I worded that entirely incorrectly, what I am suggesting is that we share software and web space, What I am talking about is sharing on an invisible level only(except for maybe a cross section of the forum software). If we did it this way it might offset the cost of server space and software. Please remember that this is just a suggestion.

Opening up the software

I’m not as sure about this idea as I was before reading all these posts. I still think that it would be a good idea on some level, but in the same breath I have posted on boater talk about boating in Europe and I had someone get back with me WAY quick. Maybe the simple solution would be to have a director on the forum to boatertalk.

About Cross Breeding with the Vikings.

First of all I would like to say that I do not enjoy cross breeding, it chaffs me.
I have thought about signing up with the Vikings for years. I normally boat with the Vikings as much as BWA members. I have always thought that bringing the two clubs closer together would be super. Sign me up…

Thanks Jbob
Man of wind

sorry Barry
didn't mean to sound mean or disrespectful, but you have to admit the forum you mentioned is sort of useless. After watching these posts it does seem that that there are a significant number of posts that support opening up the two forums mentioned including our president. It would certainly benefit those who try to use the BWA website and by not opening up the others perhaps those who feel membership is encouraged by restricted posting will not be too upset. I will tell you spam is NOT a problem on the Viking site and you can certainly turn off the email function if the emails annoy you. I did.

Also Barry tell Cynthia that the paddle should be done sometime next week so we will try to get it back in her hands and on the river!
John

I talked to Barry and I understand the current hosting arrangement is fine with the AW and serves us both well. It really is huge we don't have to maintain the system and its mutually beneficial to have the concentrated traffic. AW has been great to get us what we need in order to support any kind of development we might want to do and are open to help and input. I'll figure out what's needed to install that module and if there's more they'll probably be similar.

hey Russell:

Please school me on some of these things..
"It really is huge we don't have to maintain the system" When you say maintain the system, what do you mean, the forum software system? or are you talking about an SQL thing.

"its mutually beneficial to have the concentrated traffic" Why? I guess your saying that it makes AW look good to have more hits? or/and it allows more people to see our forum.

I am just wondering about this. It still seems to me that we would benefit by moving the forum to our local site. I am just wanting more information on these issues. If you have the time could you tell me or lead me to a place where I could educate myself, I would appreciate it, maybe we could talk at the roll session.

Man of wind, when I referred to system maintenance I meant forum, sql, apache, os..., the entire software stack required to function together to deliver the page you're viewing now. Additionally you've got hardware. Hard drives blow, networks fail, buildings catch on fire. Backups have to be created and maintained. Database backups, file system backups. As it stands right now AW handles every aspect of that for us, in my opinion that's nice. I don't want to volunteer to do that. I don't want to get paged out at 3am (not that they do either, but I bet there's some kind of support rotation) b/c a hard drive failed. I don't want to get a call on Saturday afternoon someone saying the forums are down and have to spend the afternoon on the phone with tech support. I don't think anybody would deny the utility of the forums and we've come to expect them to always be up. And for the most part any time of any day when any one of us from anywhere on Earth hits the forums they do the job they're meant to do. So I think it's huge we don't have to allocate our resources (free time, some money) to these tasks. Thank You AW! And since they take care of these aspects we can focus on enhancing what we have if we so desire. That's all I meant.

As far as the traffic concentration is concerned, I guess it's really about page views and advertisers/supporters. I wasn't aware of how many page views the BWA forums get each day. It's in the top 10 of all AW pages. I don't know all the particulars, maybe somebody else can speak to that, but I've heard it ultimately means more dollars to the AW to have our forum traffic when it comes time for them to talk to whoever about getting monetary support. More support for AW means more support for BWA (and other clubs of course) and river conservation which benefits the entire paddling community. It's a win-win symbiotic relationship.

I guess I too should retract my statement about it being harder to deal with the current system than perhaps a "new one". In retrospect that was a cop-out way on my part of saying I don't understand the current one because I'm not comfortably familiar with the particular technologies involved. Having a better understanding of how the BWA fits in with the AW mission, and how the AW mission benefits the BWA I see clearly I should just do a better job of understanding and figuring out what we have rather than trying to reinvent a working wheel that perhaps has some annoying aspects for some. I get so excited about the club and the sport and want to help in ways I can (which obviously doesn't include cutting metal) and since AW's site as a whole is such a core resource for the entire paddling community it can only benefit me to learn it inside and out, all the while keeping in mind it's something done for fun.

The AW and the BWA are purely seperate entities, and though we choose to support the AW, I in no way see either the AW nor the BWA as linked in any way other than the common bond of paddling.

Gmead



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2008 03:18PM by ezgpaddler.

Russell...it is very refreshing to hear your understanding of the symbiotic relationship we all should have with AW. It gives me hope that aspiring paddlers such as yourself can see more than what's in front of them and think on a more global level. We all are guilty of being a bit too selfish at times (that includes me as well) so I would like to thank you and all others for any volunteer work on this issue...I think it to be very important. We have to get the word out, and there's no better way than the internet.

Additionally I would hope that EZG stands alone in this thought process. I DO think that BWA and AW are linked with the common bond of paddling, but there is SO much more than that...I hope. I guess my glass is half full today, but we must concede that we, as paddlers, make up but a micron of the global population. Our only hope is to have strength in numbers, and because of this we must stand united...BWA, VCC, EP, TSRA, WVRC, insert whoever paddles! As Brent so eloquently, and a bit whimsically, puts it: AW is our mothership! Beam me up, Scotty

Clay

The AW is NOT our mothership, we are only united through the common bond of paddling. Our support of the AW through memberships, financial contributions and volunteer commitments may endorse they're actions for the benefit of all paddlers, but the affilaition of the BWA ends there. The BWA and the AW are and I hope always will be seperate entities. We are not one big happy socialist family. Diversity, among the local clubs combined with a unified goal is the heartbeat of the paddling community and while the BWA may share certain common bonds with the AW we are in no way obligated to abide by any of it's governance except by democratic choice. The BWA has it's own governing body made of of elected officers who are members of the body and may or may not be associated with the AW.

The roll of officers within the BWA is to serve the membership of the BWA and is NOT obligated or authorized to take any action regarding AW issues, or issues of property owned by the AW without a the approval of themembership of teh BWA

Gmead



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2008 04:34PM by ezgpaddler.

I want many "Motherships", with AW being one of them.

I do WANT American Whitewater to be one of our Motherships... but more importantly... I want to WANT American Whitewater to be one of our Motherships. I don't want our club to be (overly?)dominated by any one Mothership and that includes American Whitewater.

I love to sing American Whitewater's praises and I've donated my time and money towards many of it's efforts and benefits, but it's the local people who really make things happen, if with the help of organizations like American Whitewater.

For instance...

It was the local people who bought and paid for the Elkhorn takeout. Not a single entity like the BWA or a single national organization such as AW. It was locals with various interest and allegiances.

A few of those locals are loyal followers of American Whitewater and have done tons of great work & have given and sacrificed for American Whitewater, as well as other organizations and causes. People like Barry Grimes, Brent Austin, Burgess Carey and Dave Margavage and I thank each of you for all you've done and all you WILL do. You're relentless fanatics and I'm happy as Hell you choose to be relentless in some of your battles. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

But...

There were other local partners in this land deal with other interests and allegiances. Without them, we wouldn't have been able to buy that land. Ben Askren, Dave Merrifield, David Quarles and a host of others with various levels of input and allegiance to American Whitewater and this property. These guys haven't been beating the American Whitewater drum quite as much as have some other guys... but... nor have they been beating their OWN drum(I respect humility). They saw a need and gave. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Without ALL these guys coming together, including the various clubs, organizations and individuals, we, local paddlers, would not have that takeout.

Local paddlers, working together, is what got us and AW that property. Not the other way around.

In the end, American Whitewater got that property because a few people refused to do anything else. They threatened to pull the plug on the whole deal, just to get their way. The property would be deeded to American Whitewater, or they would refuse to participate in the effort to buy the land. That's their right... but just think... a stubborn allegiance to a single entity almost spoiled the whole deal.

Though some others had different ideas about who this property should be deeded to, they, to make every effort to make that land deal possible, agreed to allow the property to be deeded to American Whitewater. They made a concession. A big one.

It appears their generous concession is coming back to bite them in the butt. Their generosity is being repaid with further stubborn, relentless demands by the same few people.

Now... I fear that a stubborn allegiance to this single entity may become a divisive presence within the BWA above and beyond this property.

Yes... I'd like American Whitewater to continue to be one of our Motherships... but not THE Mothership.

It's a big world out there folks.

Though access is an issue near and dear to my heart, there's more going on in the boating world that needs our attention and I'd like to see the BWA continue in it's diverse support of the various interests of it's membership.

Again... I want to WANT American Whitewater to be one of our Motherships. I don't want to be smothered or dominated by American Whitewater or it's fanatics(of which I consider myself one).

Aren't we an affiliate club of AWA?